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Re: Arundhati Roy on Juriprudence

Please help make the Manifesto better, or accept it, and propagate it!


--- Ashish Hanwadikar <ashish_hanwadikar@yahoo.com>
> Please help make the Manifesto better, or accept it,
> and propagate it!

> Compared to Muslim invaders who
> looted our countries
> left and right, Westerners atleast gave us something
> in return -
> democracy, infrastructure like Postal service,
> Railway, Land Records, 
> Education setup, technology etc. It doesn't absolve
> them of their
> crimes against us, however ignoring these things is
> not easy! 

Most of them were created for the benefit of the
British administration. The price that we paid for it
was too hefty. And, without colonialism, we could
still have obtained all those things. Japan did it.
Learning from the west is not a problem, learning from
anybody for that matter is not a problem.

>And I
> firmly believe it was combined efforts of Western
> democracies like US,
> and other European powers that we have got rid of
> Communism from the
> World! I just shudder to think what would have
> happened if Russia had
> joined Germany, Japan and Italy in World War II. 

I am no fan of Russia but the fact is that it's them
who fought the toughest against the German onslaught.
Russia lost many millions of its citizens in World War
II. I don't think they ever got enough credit for it.
They just didn't do enough media hype and propaganda.

> imagine further
> that US was not powerful enough! Where we would be?
> Just think about
> it!

It's a matter of conjecture. For most people on this
planet, US doesn't make any difference. 

> We have to separate the horrible crimes committed by
> Westerners from
> the superiority of their values. Why? Because, Hong
> Kong even though it
> was occupied by the same Western powers is one of
> most developed and
> civilized countries of the world because of
> capitalism and free market.

Like many American economists, Hong Kong is your
favourite story. Somehow it proves a point or
something. Tell us some new stuff. 

> Thus, even with lack of political freedom capitalism
> and free market
> are very superior. We should not throw Baby out with
> the Bath Water!

Buzz words like 'capitalism', 'free market' are all
very good. I personally prefer safety nets in the
society. As long as 'capitalism' and 'free market' do
not clash with it I am fine. My only worry is these
things will only fill the pockets of rich and corrupt
in India. Poor people will have nothing. And in India,
majority is poor. I am not an expert on these issues,
not even remotely. I'd love to hear from more
knowledgable folks as to how 'capitalism' and 'free
market' will work for everybody.

> If you want historic justice let's start with
> injustice to women,
> casteism, untouchability, Muslim invaders, and so on
> ...

I think our society is addressing issues related to
women's equality with men, caste, untouchability etc.
You have to admit these are getting better albeit
slowly. The pace is better in the cities as expected.
We can't address Muslim invaders, not unless we build
a time machine.

> Even if we are "allowed" to punish Pakistan do we
> have the will to do
> so? Not without risking a nuclear holocast! 

So, that's how we are going to be blackmailed from now

> Let's remember that WTO negotiations are about trade
> and economy.
> Nobody is using physical force there. When we are at
> the neogiatiting
> table Western countries have the bargaining capacity
> because of the
> volume of potential trade that we need from them not
> because they are
> pointing a gun at us! 

I thought that they loved our market. 1 billion people
to sell goods to.

>Nothing prevents us from
> withdrawing from WTO and
> forming bilateral treaties with all the nations!

That won't work. You know that. WTO is a framework
that's a win-win situation for most of these powerful
western countries. Why would they geopardise that by
allowing such bilateral treaties and then fight among
themselves? May be only in a very limited scope, if at

> As for racial discrimination I don't know what to
> say! I have been
> staying in US for 2 years now! I am not saying that
> racial
> discrimination does not exists here! But for all
> practical purpose it
> has not prevented me from going ahead!

I am not talking about you. I am talking historically.

- Rajiv

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