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Re: Arundhati Roy on Juriprudence

Please help make the Manifesto better, or accept it, and propagate it!


--- Yogesh Upadhyay <u_yogesh@rediffmail.com> wrote:
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please help make the Manifesto better, or accept it, and propagate
> it!
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> IPI_Marker
> Way to go!!!
> I have done that in the past when I have deliberately wanted to see
> someone
> / some event my own myopic way only to embarras myself later. Does'nt
> work
> that way, unfortunately for us!!!

Obviously you are speaking from the benefit of experience which I don't

> The "court of law", Ms. Roy is refering to, is International Court of
> Justice and not a local court. And she is not talking about trial of
> terrorists in the court of law anyways. What she is, however,
> lamenting is
> the fact that no permission was sought or NO CONCLUSIVE proof was
> presented
> to any NEUTRAL body which could justify a war with Afghanistan. Now,
> knowing
> fully well that attack on Afghanistan is more an attack on its people
> than
> its Taliban rulers, these attacks were neither justified not
> "fruitful".
> What do you think, Laben or Al Zawahri were in Afghanistan until
> October 7,
> 2001 when US started pounding it. Yesterday's news papers say Al
> Zawahri was
> nabbed by Iranian Police.

So what is your suggestion for America? Go the United Nations, pass a
resolution against Taliban and Al Qaeda, and then file a case against
them in the International Court of Justice? Please answer my following
question carefully! If the attack had been on India killing 3000 or so
people would you have recommended similar things to Indian Govt.? And
by the way who is going to collect evidence against Taliban and Al
Qaeda? I guess US of A will have to petition International Court of
Justice to subpoena the evidence from these terrorist organizations.
And what happens then? Who actually goes to Afghanistan and collect
evidence? India, or France or China or England? Exactly who? Oh, wait a
second, you mean to say, the United Nations! The same UN who is still
trying to send Weapons Inspectors to Iraq to inspect whether that
country is building weapons of mass destruction! And what if
Afghanistan Govt. does not recognize authority of UN and refuse to
allow UN authorities inside Afghanistan (just like Iraq is doing)? What
will the UN do? Ask US of A more military support? The same US of A
which is party to the dispute? Nonsense! And what if by the time US of
A and other countries are collecting evidence Osama Bin Laden strikes
again and kills few thousand more innocent civilians, say in India?
The requirement that proof of involvement be provided and permission be
taken from UN when the terrorist are in position to strike again in a
very deadly way and potentially possessing weapons of mass destruction
is insane at best!

> And in the same myopia, we have missed Madeline Albright's statement.
> What
> it means, in a broader of scheme of things, is the same American
> hegemony
> which even Prof. Noam Chomsky has been so strongly critical about,
> almost
> all his life. I see striking similarity of "dissent", if that is what
> it is,
> demonstrated by Arundhati Roy and Noam Chomsky against the
> establishment,
> whether local or international.

If you see striking similarity of "dissent" then it is exactly that!
Dissent without direction, without any clearcut alternative! These
people are so anti-west that they are completly blinded by hate.
Anything that challenges principles of western civilization causes
cheers among them! Even if it means the absurdity of justifying Taliban
and deliberate attack on innocent civilians! 

> I think there is a need to understand the deeper implications of
> "People
> rarely win wars,
> governments rarely lose them". What she means to say is that people
> rarely
> want wars and that once in war, whatever the outcome of the  war,
> it's
> invariably the people who lose. Nobody is trying to justify
> talibansim here
> but intellectuals should understand that "civilized" governments like
> America's cannot practice talibanism to other countries.

Utter nonsense! "People rarely want wars!" Which people? The
palestinian people? Do they want peace? Or the people who killed each
other during partition of India during independence? Or the people who
brought down the disputed structure in Ayodhya? Look at the
pronouncement made by Muslim clergies at the Hajj! Do they want peace?
Where are you living? In the caves in Afghanistan? The people who fight
in the wars actually are not "people" according to you or what? Or do
they come from some other planet? How can wars happen without some
people wanting them? 

Oh! come on! What do you mean by America practiced talibanism to other
countries? What do you mean by practicing talibanism? Which countries
are you referring to?

> For the kind information of people who are not very happy with the
> writer,
> she has been equally strong critic of the Indian establishment as
> well. And
> you might want to excuse her for here "extremist" descriptions of the
> state
> of affairs. I would give her that license but I would read between
> lines and
> g
> the state-media-corporations nexus, which bombard us with notions so
> strongly and so persistently that we start accepting them as facts.
> Most of
> us do!!!

And the state, media and corporations are run by non-people isnt' it? 

> I would also urge some senior members of this forum to contribute
> their
> ideas and also guide the forum from time to time whenever there is
> digression, as it is now, from the original intentions of this forum.

Discussion regarding what is terrorism, what is getting justified
because some people feel "oppressed" is I believe should be part of any
policy discussions. And if this is digression according to you, why did
you reply to these forum? You could have sent me a personal reply!
Also, to the forum you could have sent a reminder not to engage in such
"digressions" in the future?

> Regards,
> Yogesh

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