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Re: Re:Global Currency System

Please help make the Manifesto better, or accept it, and propagate it!

I agree with you that the energy used to produce should be reflected in a
product.  And its good know that you know some physics... but the fact
remains that the energy used is already reflected in the product.  That is
why gold costs more than water.  

Your problem is that what you are proposing is recursive.  You want to
define money in terms of energy.  Unfortunately it takes energy to produce
energy.  Suppose you  define one dollar as equivalent to the energy produced
when one litre of 100% acetone is burnt in 100% pure O2 at 50C and 50%
humidity at one atmosphere (standard enough for you?).  Suppose that is x

So I will assume (and maybe i am wrong in assuming this) that you want that
1 dollar to accurately reflect the cost of producing that much acetone
right? And my assumption is fairly rational because if acetone is cheaper
then people could manufacture acetone for less than a dollar and still get
paid a dollar for it.  Then the whole world would start making acetone and
no one would work.  

Or if acetone was costlier then you would be giving people the guarantee
that the currency will buy x joules by burning 1 litre of acetone when in
reality acetone costs more than a dollar a litre.  And no one would supply
the acetone.  

So my assumption is ok.  

Then what if someone invents a really cheap way to manufacture acetone,
later on? Will he not be literally printing money?  Or if someone invents a
way to deliver x joules (for which he will be paid 1 dollar) but that is
really polluting.  Will you still pay him a dollar?  Are you paying 1$ for
delivery of 1 litre of acetone or for x joules?  Answer these questions... 
Propose a standard and defend it instead of simply repeating over and over
again that energy should be used as a reference for currency and that doing
so will magically liberate the oppressed and hungry masses of the world.  

Abhijeet Pradhan

--- MV <maxv@vsnl.com> wrote:
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please help make the Manifesto better, or accept it, and propagate it!
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > From: prakash chandrashekar
> >
> > I didn't understand. How does the mass-energy relationship enter into
> this
> debate ? What is the connection of energy in mass, with value of
> products as
> created by humans.
> >
> > A kg of mineral water costs Rs 10.
> > A kg of gold costs Rs 4,00,000.
> >
> > They are relativistically equal in energy. So,what are you trying to
> say ?
> >
> The value of a product is depended on how much energy
> is mobilized/expended to produce it, in the eg. you have
> mentioned it is obvious that water is avilable in
> plenty to purify it and package it does not take too much
> energy/manpower, infact most of the energy mobilization
> comes at the distribution/transportation as well as the
> advertising cost to sell the water, hence the price is low.
> In the case of gold to produce 1 kg of gold, it takes lot of
> energy both machine and manpower, hence the gold costs more.
> When you think about it, whole demand supply theory is based
> on this energy/effort required to aquire/create the product
> concept that is why diamond is more costlier than gold it
> takes even more effort/energy to mine/find diamonds.
> At the time of gold based currencies there was at least an
> arbitrary reference value, but now even that is not there.
> This creates lot of anomaly/distortions in valuations in
> International trade because the currencies are not based
> on any reference value.
> The energy is the best reference value because since the
> time of barter system, the valuations of all products and
> services are done on a subconscious level relative to the
> energy mobilisation or how much work is required to make
> the product or provide the service. You can think on a
> concious level about the valuation process and every time
> you will come to energy mobilization as the root.
> Money is nothing but representation of potential to mobilise
> *energy* then why don't we quantify/define it and use that
> as the base for currencies?
> MV.
> >
> > ------------- Original Message --------------
> > "MV" <maxv@vsnl.com> wrote:
> > In the above equation *any* process that is taken as
> > standard will follow the equation
> >
> >   E = m (c x c)
> >
> > try disproving that........
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This is the National Debate on System Reform.       debate@indiapolicy.org
> Rules, Procedures, Archives:            http://www.indiapolicy.org/debate/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------

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This is the National Debate on System Reform.       debate@indiapolicy.org
Rules, Procedures, Archives:            http://www.indiapolicy.org/debate/