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Re: Umesh on Education
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Please help make the Manifesto better, or accept it, and propagate it!
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Unmesh:
"we are a society first and then a nation state, and if not, then I
have nothing to talk about. And a society is the community of people who
depend on each other and work together to ensure everyone progresses."
Yes, in a society people depend on each other for various things including
goods
and services. But does this interdependence suggest that some can force
others
to provide what they don't have? If those who have and want to give to
others,
more power to them. But they shouldn't forced to give to others. It's the
same
whether I rob or send in my agent called Sarkar to collect. A society that
violates rights of others to provide for others has neither rights nor
provisions. Instead of repeating here, i would refer to Ayn Rand's essays,
The
Nature of Govt and Man's Rights. I think she nailed these issues well.
"I can keep on arguing as
to why those arguments don't hold much water in the context of Indian
Education policy, not even here in the United States. "
Yes, we are unique. And only those countries that have about a billion
people,
15 languages, all the major religions of the world, ethnic diversity,
geography,
weather, and Indianness could have something of relevance to say about our
problems. Well, there is only one such country. India. Why compare and
constrast? Reinvest the wheel everytime.
"Please please, let us try to work on some original solutions, rather then
remaining fixated with the US Policy....we have to start thinking afresh, away
from voucher driven market
system, and not shy away from looking at other working systems simply
because that might not fit in the new so called capitalist thinking."
Original means "away from voucher driven market system...and capitalist
thinking!" Be original, don't think capitalist thoughts. Oh, how about the
capitalists acts??
parth-
"Tiwari, Umesh K" wrote:
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please help make the Manifesto better, or accept it, and propagate it!
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Parth:
>
> To your point :
> "I find it curious that you seem to equate "free things" or
> "governmentprovision" with the "fruits of freedom." Who has ever fought for
> freedom because they want a big government giving them desired goodies?
> Freedom is freedom to act not to some specific goods or results. As the
> American Constitution says ...right to the _pursuit_ of happiness ...not
> happiness itself or happiness guaranteed by any government."
> It is not the "free things" that one expects out of freedom, but the
> equitable development of infrastructure in the nation that provides
> opportunities to engage in free enterprise. If you don't care for the
> development of areas that have been ignored and left to degenerate, if you
> don't care to lift people who are forgotten, then the about modern society
> and progress is futile. Why do you have social security net (by your strict
> definition, that would amount to socialism isn't it?), why talk about
> healthcare for all? and again why talk about education for all?
> Dr. Shah, we are a society first and then a nation state, and if not, then I
> have nothing to talk about. And a society is the community of people who
> depend on each other and work together to ensure everyone progresses.
> Socialism as we know in communism, is one big failed attempt. But that does
> not negate the state's responsibility to care for those who are unable to
> carry on, and that's what happens in most capitalist economies. In fact US
> is more extreme a case, even here you can find huge socialistic programs
> being run by the government. Just across the border, up in Canada, the level
> of socialism is even higher, the taxes are higher and everyone gets free
> medical coverage. I am sure lot of people here in the States don't agree
> with it. Similarly, the welfare programs of United Kingdom are much more
> liberal, and hardworking people end-up paying heavy taxes because of that.
> You can keep throwing arguments of the United States, such as the latest
> from you being population census sampling..., and I can keep on arguing as
> to why those arguments don't hold much water in the context of Indian
> Education policy, not even here in the United States. But that in turn
> becomes a debate on whether the policies implemented in the United States
> are fair or not.
> Please please, let us try to work on some original solutions, rather then
> remaining fixated with the US Policy. You yourself have said that US
> Education model is not the best to follow when it comes to primary
> education, let us look some place else for better solutions, and mind you,
> no country other then perhaps China (which you wouldn't want to emulate) has
> the amount of population burden and hence the responsibility to educate the
> number of children then us in India.
> Therefore, we have to start thinking afresh, away from voucher driven market
> system, and not shy away from looking at other working systems simply
> because that might not fit in the new so called capitalist thinking.
> Thank You.
>
> Umesh Tiwari
>
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> This is the National Debate on System Reform. debate@indiapolicy.org
> Rules, Procedures, Archives: http://www.indiapolicy.org/debate/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
******************
Dr Parth J. Shah
President Voice: (91-11) 646-8282
Centre for Civil Society Fax: (91-11) 646-2453
B-12 Kailash Colony Email: parth@ccsindia.org
New Delhi 110048 Webpage: http://www.ccsindia.org
India
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This is the National Debate on System Reform. debate@indiapolicy.org
Rules, Procedures, Archives: http://www.indiapolicy.org/debate/
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