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Re: Arundhati Roy on Juriprudence

Please help make the Manifesto better, or accept it, and propagate it!


Hi Yogesh,

This is a good discussion.
You have bought up all the right points.

> Dear Ashish,
> Regarding my arguments on your other comments, I
> think it would, 
> more or less, a repitition of previous ideas (with
> exceptions of 
> few new examples, may be, but I would like to cut
> this here).
> However, the only clarification that I would like to
> make is 
> regarding the interpretation of "sacrifice" that you
> have made. It 
> is NOT the sacrifice of tax wealth I am referring
> to. It is 
> sacrifice of some absolutely helpless people who
> would be 
> negatively affected in a "Capitalist India". The
> poorest of the 
> poor. 

That should be "people who were negatively affected in
"socialist India". 
In a capitalist nation 
1. Govt does not take decisions on making dams.
2. People get truly compensated if they have to move
from their property.

In a socialist country
1. There is no private property - as was the case
Other than just their houses (even that is doubtful)
the affected people lived on the "people's" jungle. In
India all unclaimed land is owned by the govt - it
essentially beongs to everybody and is nobody's
2. People get thrown out when govt (read - the
infinitesimal subset which pulls the power
strings)decides what to do with the land.

In essence what you called "capitalist" was socialist
in it's purest form. 

>The BPL kinds. People of the sorts of Narmada
> Valley. And I 
> dont see why anything that is going to affect such
> huge percentage 
> of people (let's restrict ourselves to expressing in
> percentages; 
> absolute numbers would bring heart attack to some)
> be implemented 
> at this time. Please get me correct. My concern is
> not Capitalism. 
> My concern is Timing. I would have loved to see
> India where its 
> populace is capable of taking advantage of free
> markets. That's 
> not to be so at present, unfortunately.

I dont think timing is an issue here. This is pure
socialist state with its most awesome display of
Do not confuse the Narmada decision to be a free -
capitalistic decision - it was not.

> You cannot leave a lion and a goat in a zoo (I am
> talking of zoo; 
> not a forest. Note the difference. Zoo=India, US,
> the systems; 
> Forest=Afghanistan, the anarchy) and claim to have
> given equal 
> freedom to both. 

Freedom can never be granted - it is inalienable -
yours to begin with.
Govts everywhere are interested in curtailing it.

> So if you are talking about
> designing a system 
> (zoo) where you give freedom to all, ensure that the
> lion does not 
> kill the goat. Empower the goat (No need to weaken
> the lion, 
> though). And note that that is not the same thing as
> "distributing" the wealth.

There seems to be some confusion here. The example of
goat vs Lion is incorrect because the notion of
physical force involved. Please note that in a
capitalist - free markets there is no physical force
(only legal user of physical force is the govt). There
is however "force" (If I may) of value.
So to correct the example in a zoo where there is pure
value play - let the goat grow up to become a lion.
Excercising of the basic rights of life liberty and
property is the highest "empowerment" a goat can ever

Another misconception is that the ablest will dominate
in a free environment - that is wrong when the ablest
and the best work to increase productivity -
productivity of all - including the not so able is
Also in a free environment the not so able can work
hard and expect known benefits of their labor.

> In this respect, without intending to digress, I
> think, our prime 
> concern should be EDUCATION. That's money invested
> for the future 
> of the nation. And there is absolutely no harm in
> draining tax 
> money in this channel. Spend in anything that
> concerns education. 
> Make people feel the need to go for education.
> Primary education, 
> higher education all.

Govt should not be in the business of education (so
much for cursing capitalists for aping the west - the
socialists do it the best). 
When govts get into the business of education - only
one view - the govt's view dominates.

Education should be left to NGOs in India - they are
doing just fine without any help from govt right now
When there is no taxation for this purpose we will see
an exponential increase in charitable donations of
both time and money from individuals for the same.


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