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RE: Muslim world is the poorest, most illiterate, most backward

Please help make the Manifesto better, or accept it, and propagate it!


--- Ashish Hanwadikar <ashish_hanwadikar@yahoo.com>

> The problem is something very different. In
> Palestine there is no
> responsible authority. What happens if Israel gives
> land to PLO in
> return for peace and Yasser Arafat cannot rein in
> more terrorist types
> in his territory. 

I don't understand. If Palestinians get their own
territory and then terrorists take control over that
state then at best it'll be Palestine's problem and at
worst no worse than what it is for Israel today. It's
not laboratory experiment; you can't play with lives
and aspirations of people and deny them their right to
make sure they act, talk, and behave the way you
expect them to.

>In last so many years he has not
> shown any proof that
> he can do that. He was not elected in a free and
> fair elections and
> neither has any plans to do so in the future.

This question has come up and he'll have to address
this soon.

> They
> do not have
> separation of powers like Israel has among
> Executive, Judiciary and
> Parliament. This makes its difficult to have civil
> and just society.

You can't conclude that before that state is formed.
Before the creation of Israel, these people lived on
that land for thousands of years. They have a right to
be there irrespective of the structure of their state.

> And that gives rise to so much violence amongst
> Palestinian people. 
> Does anybody on this forum seriously believe that
> violence will cease
> if Israel gives the land back to Palestinians?

I do.

> It is not question of whether Palestinian people are
> peace loving or
> not! It is a question of whether they have a system
> to express and
> resolve conflicting opinions among themselves and
> project a responsbile
> authority outside.

Again, they will have to take care of that. 

> Take our case with Pakistan.
> Vajpayee was talking

You are digressing.

> Israel accepted 1947 UN resolution for the parition
> of Palestinian
> terrority. Palestinian did not. 

Why would they? They were the majority there for
thousands of years. After WWI they were promised by
the western powers to get their own state there
eventually. Instead of that, between WWI and WWII they
saw a serious effort to change the demographics of
that place by massive inflow of Jewish population from
Europe. And, one fine day these new people wanted to
create their own country by partition or no partition.
Would you have agreed to it? Also, what you didn't
mention that most Jewish leaders didn't want any
partition either. Pre-1967 Israel was not a big
country. Didn't have a lot of resources. They wanted
the entire land to themselves. 

> peace and give justice. Just like what we did with
> South Africa and

South Africa is different. Completely different. Here
the minority ruled because of their skin colour where
the native people who were in the majority suffered.
The moral issue was unambiguous. Also, the propaganda
factor was not there. The white South Africans forgot
to revise history. They forgot to tell the world that
they were right. Pen is mightier than sword after all.

> does not matter whether dictators are right. They
> are wrong because
> their method is wrong.

That's all very fine. But what does it have to do with
the Palestinians?

> Why dont' well meaning intellectuals ask PLO to form
> democracy in
> existing Palestinian areas? Why can' they hold a
> free and fair
> elections? And then once their internal system is
> working and they
> remove elimination of Israel as their official
> policy from their
> charter we can all put pressure on Israel to return
> their land and
> bring back the refugees. I am sure with all
> democracies including US
> and India will have no trouble in getting Israel to
> do that.

Why do you believe that? Israel will do whatever is in
its best interest. They cannot impose a precondition
on the Palestinian governing structure.  A future
Palestine may or may not be like Israel. This kind of
spin doctoring and coming up with new twists and
conditions is most reprehensible. 

- Rajiv

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