[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: Non-violent movement needed around the world



---------------------------------------------------------------------
Please help make the Manifesto better, or accept it, and propagate it!
---------------------------------------------------------------------

IPI_Marker

Hi Rajiv,
        Look at my comments below:

> 
> --- Ashish Hanwadikar <ashish_hanwadikar@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Please help make the Manifesto better, or accept it,
> > and propagate it!
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > IPI_Marker
> > 
> > Hi Rajiv,
> > 
> 
> > 
> > What do you expect from Israel? First, all the
> > neighboring Arab nations
> > like Egypt, Syria, Jordan attack Israel thinking
> > that with Russian
> > weapons they can easily eliminate Israel. Then what
> > a surprise? Israel
> > uses US Airplanes to bomb the hell out of these
> > communist-Islam
> > combination. And guess what happens? Israel captures
> > Gaza, Golan
> > Heights, West Bank etc. And now that they have lost
> > the war what does
> > Palestinians cry? 
> 
> According to your logic U.S.A should hold on to many
> territories, e.g, Afghanistan, Kuwait, parts of Iraq,
> anything.

No. US situation is very different. Because US is fighting wars with
its neighbors they need not hold the land. If you are surrounded by
your enemies and they refuse to recognize your existence I think Israel
is right in holding the land till Palestine recognize them and come to
negotiating table giving up violence completely. If PLO's charter says
that they do not recognize Israel they exactly from whom they are
demanding their land?

> Also, there is no similiarity with the
> Kashmir situation. After the Pakistani invasion of
> 1947, the maharaja of Kashir acceded to India legally.
> Indian forces were sent to Kashmir only after he
> signed. That implies India went to Kashmir to protect
> its territory. I am disturbed by some people's
> propensity to equate India with Israel these days.
> India never invaded nor occupied others lands. India
> treats its minorities better than anybody. A minority
> person has as much chance to succeed in India as
> anybody else. 

The land does not come stamped with its owners name from the God. It is
decided by mutual agreements. All land ownership can be traced back to
violence including Kashmir. If Palestinian refuse to accept Israel and
conduct terrorist operation against its citizens why should Israel give
them "thier" land back.

> Coming back to the war of 1967 - Israel had the right
> to defend itself and it had to do what it had to do.
> But, there has to be a plan to withdraw from the
> occupied territory. Israel has shown no intention of
> doing that. Even if they are willing to give the
> Palestinians a part of it, they try to sabotage it by
> taking measures that would make the Palestinian
> sovereignity meaningless. Then there are other factors
> that the western media do not tell us and make them
> seem inconsequential. At the time of the creation of
> the state of Israel, more than 70% of the Palestinians
> fled. They became refuges overnight. What will be done
> about them? According to the international laws either
> they should be able to come back or they should be
> given reparation money.

Who was responsible for creating the refugees? Aren't the Arab
countries (Egypt, Jordan and Syria) who attacked Israel 1967 are
responsible for creating the refugees? Why should't they be paying and
supporting the refugees? Instead they keep fueling hatred against
Israeli and inciting more Palestinians! 

> But if they come back then the
> demographics in Israel will change drastically; which
> by the way, will happen in next 30 years anyway. What
> will happen to Jerusalem? It was annexed in 1967 as
> well? Will Israel apologise to the Palestinians for
> making them homeless? A true reconciliation will
> involve many big and small issues that neither Israel
> nor Arafat seem to be willing to deal with.

Why would Yasser Arafat be willing to deal with these issues? He got
his Nobel Peace Prize! Israel are not perfect either. But it is much
easier to deal with Israel because it has the same system that India
has! Yasser Arafat is neigher elected in free and fair election and
neither he has any control over hamas and other terrorist organization.


> Israeli
> soldiers oppress and humiliate Palestinians every day
> in the occupied territory. Does the 1967 war justify
> that? This oppression goes back much farther than the
> Intifada which was launched 1.5 years back. So what
> gives? There is another thing that needs to be pointed
> out. It's beneficial for the Israelis and the west in
> general to club Palestinians together with the Arab
> states. Somehow that puts Palestinians in even worse
> light. The Arab states have their own agenda; and not
> all Palestinians live in Arab states.

You are right Arab states have their own agendas. However, don't forget
that PLO was launched and operated for many years from Arab countries.
Lots of arms and other supplies come for Arab countries. It is amazing
that you can club Israel and US together but want to point out
differences between Arab and PLO's agendas.

> Many of them are
> in Europe and North America. Heck, some of them are in
> India. If anything, they remind us of the Jewish
> people of yesterday when they were scattered around
> the world and were persecuted every where other than
> in India. I am baffled to see their lack of sympathy
> for Palestinians given that fact. I guess oppressed
> become oppressors when they have the chance.
> 

Come on! The problem is Palesitinian's recognition of Israel. If they
realize that they have to live in peace with Israel and practice that
we can all put pressure on Israel to return their land. But we all know
that it won't happen. Tell me one Muslim country that has learned to
live with its neighbors. And dont' tell them that all of them are
oppressed. They teach their children to hate jews right from the
begining. In fact, school textbooks in Palestinian schools show maps of
Palestine without Israel.  Don't kid yourself into believing that
somehow returning their land to them will buy you peace. We have tried
that with Pakistan with no success.


Regards,
Ashish K Hanwadikar



--------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the National Debate on System Reform.       debate@indiapolicy.org
Rules, Procedures, Archives:            http://www.indiapolicy.org/debate/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------