[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: Arundhati Roy on Juriprudence



---------------------------------------------------------------------
Please help make the Manifesto better, or accept it, and propagate it!
---------------------------------------------------------------------

IPI_Marker

Hi Rajiv,


> 'West' created may problems for India. Your 'west'
> flourished at the expense of India and other Asian
> countries. Do not forget that. Some people are more
> sensitive to that fact than the others. Even today we
> deal with their selfish double standards all the time
> in all sorts of areas, such as, being told not to
> punish Pakistan, unfair WTO deals, unfair patent laws,
> unfair non-proliferation treaties, racial
> discrimination, etc.

I agree with you that West created many problems for India and other
Asian countries. But aren't we ourselves responsible for what happened.
Before British and other European powers arrived in India there was no
unified India. Everybody was fighting with everybody. Religion, caste,
language, ethinic strife were dominant. So no point in blaming the West
for all our evils. Compared to Muslim invaders who looted our countries
left and right, Westerners atleast gave us something in return -
democracy, infrastructure like Postal service, Railway, Land Records, 
Education setup, technology etc. It doesn't absolve them of their
crimes against us, however ignoring these things is not easy! And I
firmly believe it was combined efforts of Western democracies like US,
and other European powers that we have got rid of Communism from the
World! I just shudder to think what would have happened if Russia had
joined Germany, Japan and Italy in World War II. And imagine further
that US was not powerful enough! Where we would be? Just think about
it!

We have to separate the horrible crimes committed by Westerners from
the superiority of their values. Why? Because, Hong Kong even though it
was occupied by the same Western powers is one of most developed and
civilized countries of the world because of capitalism and free market.
Thus, even with lack of political freedom capitalism and free market
are very superior. We should not throw Baby out with the Bath Water!

If you want historic justice let's start with injustice to women,
casteism, untouchability, Muslim invaders, and so on ...

I think it is very hypocritic on our part that we continue to blame our
problems on West, refuse to acknowledge superiority of their values
like freedom, democracy, securlarism, capitalism and then go to these
very same countries with beggin bowls!

I am not saying that we should forget what happened to us! However, we
cannot drive our car by looking in the Rear View Mirror! We need to use
the superior Western values to our own purpose. 

Even if we are "allowed" to punish Pakistan do we have the will to do
so? Not without risking a nuclear holocast! 

Let's remember that WTO negotiations are about trade and economy.
Nobody is using physical force there. When we are at the neogiatiting
table Western countries have the bargaining capacity because of the
volume of potential trade that we need from them not because they are
pointing a gun at us! Nothing prevents us from withdrawing from WTO and
forming bilateral treaties with all the nations! Why even WTO we are
not even welcome in the Asia Pacific regional trade organizations!

As for racial discrimination I don't know what to say! I have been
staying in US for 2 years now! I am not saying that racial
discrimination does not exists here! But for all practical purpose it
has not prevented me from going ahead!

And remember one thing! In our blind rage against past sins of the
Westerners if we do not stand by their values like democracy and
capitalism alternative is people like Osama Bin Laden, Hitler, Stalin,
Mao! Are you prepared to handle this people!


I think we need to stop crying and focus on our future!

Regards,
Ashish K Hanwadikar
--- "Rajiv K. Shukla" <rajiv_shukla@yahoo.com> wrote:
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please help make the Manifesto better, or accept it, and propagate
> it!
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> IPI_Marker
> 
> > 
> > If you see striking similarity of "dissent" then it
> > is exactly that!
> > Dissent without direction, without any clearcut
> > alternative! These
> > people are so anti-west that they are completly
> > blinded by hate.
> > Anything that challenges principles of western
> > civilization causes
> > cheers among them! Even if it means the absurdity of
> > justifying Taliban
> > and deliberate attack on innocent civilians! 
> 
> 'West' created may problems for India. Your 'west'
> flourished at the expense of India and other Asian
> countries. Do not forget that. Some people are more
> sensitive to that fact than the others. Even today we
> deal with their selfish double standards all the time
> in all sorts of areas, such as, being told not to
> punish Pakistan, unfair WTO deals, unfair patent laws,
> unfair non-proliferation treaties, racial
> discrimination, etc.
> 
> > 
> > > 
> > > I think there is a need to understand the deeper
> > implications of
> > > "People
> > > rarely win wars,
> > > governments rarely lose them". What she means to
> > say is that people
> > > rarely
> > > want wars and that once in war, whatever the
> > outcome of the  war,
> > > it's
> > > invariably the people who lose. Nobody is trying
> > to justify
> > > talibansim here
> > > but intellectuals should understand that
> > "civilized" governments like
> > > America's cannot practice talibanism to other
> > countries.
> > > 
> > 
> > Utter nonsense! "People rarely want wars!" Which
> > people? The
> > palestinian people? Do they want peace? Or the
> > people who killed each
> > other during partition of India during independence?
> > Or the people who
> > brought down the disputed structure in Ayodhya? Look
> > at the
> > pronouncement made by Muslim clergies at the Hajj!
> > Do they want peace?
> > Where are you living? In the caves in Afghanistan?
> > The people who fight
> > in the wars actually are not "people" according to
> > you or what? Or do
> > they come from some other planet? How can wars
> > happen without some
> > people wanting them? 
> 
> The Palestinians are the most discriminated against
> community in the world in the last 50 years. They
> deserve justice. How can they get justice? It hasn't
> happened in the last 50 years. It probably won't
> happen without more bloody conflicts. Even then it may
> not happen. It's insulting and insensitive to suggest
> that they don't want peace. Who's going to give them
> peace? 
> 
> Also, you are taking the words too literally. Most
> people DO NOT want war. It's too painful in many many
> ways. Suggesting otherwise would be stupid.
> 
> - Rajiv



--------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the National Debate on System Reform.       debate@indiapolicy.org
Rules, Procedures, Archives:            http://www.indiapolicy.org/debate/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------