[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: Bizzare



---------------------------------------------------------------------
Please help make the Manifesto better, or accept it, and propagate it!
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: Sanjai Kukreti
>
> MV <maxv@vsnl.com> wrote:
> > History tells us, when Christians where prosecuted
> > in middle east some of them migrated to India. When
> > Parsies were prosecuted in Persia they migrated to
> > India. We all know, now there are only small number
> > of Christians in middle east and Parsies in Iran.
> >
> > If Babur destroyed so many temples and lakhs & lakhs
> > of infidels (vedic hindus) were sent to hell we should
> > expect large scale migration of vedic hindus from the
> > region conquered/ruled by Babur, is there any historic
> > evidence of this?
>
> Yes, there is a huge amount of historic evidence, including Babur's
own
> proclamations.
>
>
> >  How come there are still whole lot
> > of vedic hindus living in region ruled by Babur? We all
> > know that lots of them lived in what is now Pakistan
> > till the time of partisian, how can that be explained?
>
> Vedic HIndus? What are you talking about? Vedism is not the origin of
> the
> idol-worship that is practiced down to the lowest levels of society.
Who
> fed
> you this? Leftists?
> Vedism may have tried to accomodate such practices, but they pre-date
> the
> arrival/development of Vedic beliefs.
>
> Nextly, Babur conquered these areas, and destroyed their centres of
> power.
> Just like all the previous Aryan invaders before him. After all, if
> Aryan
> invaders conquered India, then how is it that most of us are all
> dark-skinned? Should we not be mostly white-skinned? The reality is
that
> all
> the Aryan invasions (pre-Islamic and post-Islamic) involved a small
> number
> of invaders defeating a larger number of natives. That is why the
> natives
> and their beliefs were not wiped out. Only the leaders were defeated.
> The peasants were largely left alone, until the Islamic rulers began
> their
> mission of converting everyone, to consolidate their control (eg.
Babur,
>
> Aurangzeb).
>
>
> > If the vedic hindus did not migrate when the Mughals
> > destroyed many of their temples and send lakhs of them
> > to hell or when British ruled them, why are they migrating
> > in large numbers from contemporary Independent India?
>
> Easy, because Leftists don't leave anyone unharassed. The Leftists
pour
> into
> every nook and cranny, and look to harass.
> "I am poor, you are not -- this must be because you have stolen from
me"
>
> "I want your property, I want your money, I want everything of yours
> that
> you have worked hard to earn"
>
> Unlike all the previous rulers of India, the Left leave no portion of
> society unharassed. I suppose that when one's ideology is about
creating
>
> stagnation, inefficiency,and deterioration,  then one is automatically

> forced to scour all parts of society, to squeeze whatever remaining
> value is
> left.
>
> If I work hard to better myself -- I don't want some Leftist vilifying

> me
> for it.
>
>
> > We should understand that the invasion of Mughals
> > and destruction of the temples were in themselves
> > a historic balancing act, it lead to the *downfall*
> > of social caste system in India. It is interesting
> > to note that till the caste system prevailed, vedic
> > hindus did not migrate from India.... This is
> > historic reality!
>
> Again, this is totally fabricated history.
>
> The caste system, as you call it, began in Africa. It came from the
> prominent tribal system that you see in place there even today.
> The people known as the Dravidians emerged from Africa and came to
> India,
> bringing those same tribal practices with them. There were then
various
> Dravidian tribes, some of them ruling over others, in a "caste
system".
>
> The Aryans invaded India, from Central Asia. As mentioned before,
small
> numbers of the invaders were able to defeat large numbers of the
locals
> in
> battle. Why? Because as we know, tribal societies are the ones more
> easily
> divided, and fall more easily to an enemy.
> Your own posts, along with those of the other leftists on here, are an

> example of this. Just as you today will speak up in defense of Babur
and
> the
> Moghul Aryan invaders, similarly during the original Aryan conquests
of
> India, the local Dravidian tribes on the bottom of the Dravidian caste

> system likewise did not object to someone overthrowing the other
> Dravidian
> tribes ("castes") ruling over them.
>
> That is why small numbers of Aryan invaders were originally able to
> quickly
> seize India. They did not interfere with the local cultural system
> ("caste
> system"), but just became the new rulers over it. Likewise, when the
> later
> Islamic Aryans invaded (eg. Moghuls such as Babur) they too did not
> interfere much with the local culture of those they had conquered,
other
>
> than to destroy the centers of power (ie. temples, which were the
> cultural
> centers of the defeated people).
>
> Just as the original Aryan invaders assimilated into the people whom
> they
> conquered (that's what happens when you are in the smaller numbers),
> likewise the Islamic Aryans later also began to acclimatize to India
> (eg.
> Akbar, who founded his own local faith, Din-e-Elahi)
>
> Look, those who aren't competent enough to solve problems relating to
> their
> social status, will always look to an outside invader for help.
> "Aryans, help me! I am a lower Dravidian caste, please help overthrow
> these
> dominant Dravidian castes and I will love you!"
> "Mughals, help me! I am a lower Hindu caste, please help overthrow
these
>
> dominant Hindu castes and I will love you!"
> "British, help me! I am a low caste, please help me overthrow these
> ruling
> Moghul and Hindu princes, and I will love you forever!"
> "Marxists, help me! I am still low after all this time, and I think
> everybody so far has let me down! Please liberate me from these
Brahmins
> or
> whoever the ruler is now, and I will love you forever!"
>
>
> I don't think that anyone in India needs a deity transplant, or a
ruler
> transplant. I think many need a backbone transplant, however, since
> their
> lack of spine seems to make them look for whatever superficial
cosmetic
> change they can get, without tackling the real problem.
>

That is exactly what i am also saying raising the
temple issue as a central theme at this stage is like
cutting the branch one is sitting on, it is like pulling
the tail of a sleeping tiger.

What India needs at this stage is education for majority
people who live in the villages (backbone of India's economy)
in the same language of instruction (english) as our
Universities use. That alone will bring unity and prosperity.
That is want we should do..... once that is done there will
be enough consensus to build the temple.

Let the temple not be symbol of India's poverty,
not the illiteracy, not the suffering of millions,
but let us build the temple as the symbol of India's
prosperity.

MV.






--------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the National Debate on System Reform.       debate@indiapolicy.org
Rules, Procedures, Archives:            http://www.indiapolicy.org/debate/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------