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Reply to Guptara

Please help make the Manifesto better, or accept it, and propagate it!
Dear Mr. Guptara,

Thanks for your response.  I understand from it that you were using the term
"fascist" loosely as a pejorative, without any intention of linking it to
the 20th Century European phenomenon of that name.

I have no reason to doubt your word that there was an assault of the sort
you describe on the person you name.  However, you may wish to enquire into
whether this person is in any way related to Mr. Arun Shourie, Rajya Sabha
BJP MP, as I think Mr. Arun Shourie has said there is no relationship.


Subroto Roy.

-----Original Message-----
From: prabhu.guptara@ubs.com <prabhu.guptara@ubs.com>
To: debate@indiapolicy.org <debate@indiapolicy.org>
Date: Sunday, January 16, 2000 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: Guptara, Mangalwadi, Shourie's nephew and "fascism"

>Please help make the Manifesto better, or accept it, and propagate it!
>     What a wonderful response from Professor Roy!  No admiration for a man
>     who has poured 20 years of his life into helping the poorest of our
>     poor by educational efforts, no horror at the paralysis of a police
>     system which is physically present but stands by while an individual
>     is beaten up by a number of people....but Professor Roy confesses to
>     find "amusement" in the incident (he perhaps needs to reflect on the
>     degeneration of his human sensitivities) and like a barrack-room
>     lawyer can only observe that the press release is unsigned (press
>     releases are usually unsigned, in case Professor Roy has not had
>     experience of receiving press releases).
>     I do not see what political agenda is involved, beyond drawing to the
>     attention of IPI good work being done by Mr Shourie's nephew (not the
>     only one in the country of course, but another example of good people
>     doing good work and being attacked for doing it) AND drawing to the
>     attention of IPI that the rule of law is obviously not upheld ... an
>     essential if we are to see foreign investment coming in to the
>     country.
>     Also essential to stop human rights abuses... bad publicity for the
>     country does not help the country in any case
>     and since he wishes to have a history lesson on the Fascists: a party
>     of people who took the law into their own hands and used the tactic of
>     terrorising the population so that they could take political control.
>     In large parts of India, fascism is the real state of affairs with a
>     collusion between police, the political class, the criminal class and
>     the administration in order to keep the mass of people in bondage, in
>     ignorance and away from the rights which are theoretically theirs
>     according to the law and the constitution.
>Thankfully, many parts of India have been freed from this fascist nexus
>(specifically most parts of east and south india and pockets in the rest of
>country).  But it is easy for people living in these pockets (who comprise
>of the readership and membership of IPI) that vast parts of central India,
>is where the bulk of the country lives, are still living in a feudal and
>If Professor Roy sees a political agenda, he should probably spell out what
>agenda he sees.
>And if he doubts the veracity of the information, all he has to do is to
>ring Mr
>Chandrakant Shourie whose contact details are provided in the press
> Or
>arrange to visit Mr Shourie who does not live all that far away from
>IPI does have a clear political agenda, clearly stated in the manifesto,
>may be summarised as: economic freedom and limited but reliable and
>Professor Prabhu Guptara
>Director, Executive and Organisational Development
>Wolfsberg Executive Development Centre
>(a subsidiary of UBS AG)
>CH-8272 Ermatingen
>Tel: +41.71.663.5605
>Fax: +41.71.663.5594
>e-mail: prabhu.guptara@ubs.com
>INTERNET: http://www.wolfsberg.com
>__________________________ Reply Separator
>Subject: Guptara, Mangalwadi, Shourie's nephew and "fascism"
>Author:  sroy (sroy@vgsom.iitkgp.ernet.in) at unix,mime
>Date:    13.01.2000 03:54
>Please help make the Manifesto better, or accept it, and propagate it!
>Mr. Arun Shourie's nephew is assaulted somewhere in Madhya Pradesh.   That
>is the apparently unsigned information Mr. Guptara sends to Dr Sanjeev
>Sabhlok at IPI.  To this he adds that his hero Mr. Mangalwadi likes the
>victim of the assault.  Then we are told the assailants are "fascists".
>are told the victim of the assault is a Brahmin "of the priestly caste",
>that he was helping the Shudras, who are at the bottom of the social
>Now this is all an overtly political agenda which goes against IPI's rules
>and commonsense.  Besides amusement, and a concern that IPI would again
>degenerate as it did last year into irrelevancies, one question arose in my
>mind, which is purely factual, and which Mr. Guptara or his friends is
>challenged to answer:
>Q.  Could Mr. Guptara or Mr. Mangalwadi please be kind enough to trace any
>linkage between the characters named by them as assailants of Mr. Shourie's
>nephew, and Benito Mussolin's Fascist Party in Italy?
>Many thanks
>Subroto Roy.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: prabhu.guptara@ubs.com <prabhu.guptara@ubs.com>
>To: debate@indiapolicy.org <debate@indiapolicy.org>
>Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 1:57 PM
>Subject: FYI on India
>>Please help make the Manifesto better, or accept it, and propagate it!
>>Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 11:48:15 +0100
>>     The following news release may be of interest to you, so I am passing
>>     it on to you.  Do use it as you see fit but all follow-up questions
>>     please to Mr Chandra Kant Shourie, Tel: + 91.7673 -32354; email:
>>     cshourie@rediffmail.com
>>     Many thanks
>>     Professor Prabhu Guptara
>>     Director, Executive and Organisational Development
>>     Wolfsberg Executive Development Centre
>>     (a subsidiary of UBS AG)
>>     CH-8272 Ermatingen
>>     Switzerland
>>     Tel: +41.71.663.5605
>>     Fax: +41.71.663.5594
>>     e-mail: prabhu.guptara@ubs.com
>>     INTERNET: http://www.wolfsberg.com
>>     Famous Indian Journalist's Nephew Suffers New Year's Attack by
>>     Fascists
>>     Arun Shourie's nephew suffers New Year Attack by Fascists
>>     Chandrakant Shourie, the nephew of one of India's most prominent
>>     journalists, Arun Shourie, was attacked by fascists on New Year's Eve
>>     in a remote part of Central India. Chandrakant, his wife, their son
>>     and friends and neighbours suffered in the attack which also damaged
>>     Mr Shourie's house and property.
>>     Chandrakant Shourie's friends, Sudhir Mishra and Sanjeev Shrivastava
>>     and family were celebrating New Year together with them. At about
>>     11.30 another neighbour, Jagat Ram with his wife and two small
>>     children, also arrived as they had also been invited. Mr Shourie came
>>     out to welcome them when Pappu Singh, Dibbu Singh, Ganesh Dheemar,
>>     Vinod Singh, Vasudev Singh and Sharad Singh attacked Mr Shourie.
>>     However, everyone in the house rushed out to Mr Shourie's rescue and
>>     when this was done, the party belonging to the house went back into
>>     the house, before going to report the matter to the Police.
>>     At 12.05 a.m. Mr Shourie returned from the Police Station along with
>>     Police escort. As soon as he stepped out of the car at his gate, he
>>     was attacked afresh by Ashok Singh, Babu Lal Patel as well as some or
>>     all of the earlier attackers and possibly some others.
>>     On hearing the uproar, some of the friends and Mrs Shourie and son
>>     Ashish Shourie ran out, managed to rescue Mr Chandrakant Shourie
>>     again, brought him inside the house and locked him in one room for
>>     own safety. The attackers then charged the house armed with sticks
>>     other lethal weapons and started beating up everyone in sight
>>     indiscriminately.
>>     Mrs Shourie suffered a wound on her hand and was protected by others
>>     even at risk to their own lives. Son Ashish had to get 5 stitches on
>>     his right hand. Friend and neighbour Sanjeev Shrivastava was hurt in
>>     his hand also; Mr Shrivastava's father as well as his brother were
>>     badly beaten up and both sustained head injuries.
>>     "All this hapenned in the presence of the Police personnel" says Mr
>>     Chandrakant Shourie, "They were either unwilling or unable to protect
>>     us".
>>     Then began the process of lodging police records and undergoing
>>     medical
>>     examination. They returned home, exhausted and traumatized at 4.00
>>     a.m., unlike most people in the world on New Year's Night who were
>>     able to welcome the dawn of the year 2000 with street parties, or
>>     special excursions or safely in their own beds.
>>     Ten days after the incident, the main culprits are still roaming
>>     freely and are threatening the witnesses and going around saying that
>>     they will kill Mr Shourie, and cut him into pieces!
>>     What could cause such strange things to happen?
>>     When Chandrakant Shourie graduated with a Bachelor of Engineering
>>     Degree from one of India's premier Engineering Institutes (BIT
>>     Pilani), he surprised everyone by idealistically deciding not to
>>     pursue a career in engineering or computing or management but to move
>>     to Nagod, one of India's most remote and backward places in India, to
>>     set up a school for the most disadvantaged groups of people there.
>>     Shouries belong to the Brahmin caste (the top caste, of priests)
>>     has traditionally been scholarly and idealistic. But with financial
>>     support only from a few family friends, the "school" was much too
>>     idealistic and not at all scholarly. At the start: Mr and Mrs
>>     Shourie's bedroom served as the only classroom and the school library
>>     was the few books that the family itself possessed which they shared
>>     with the students who came to them.
>>     But for the poor and the oppressed in Central India - that is, the
>>     lower castes, the Shudras, the virtual slaves and the untouchables -
>>     even that little was an enormous boon! No one had taken interest in
>>     their troubles for hundreds if not thousands of years.
>>     These "lower caste" people have very little education and capability.
>>     The higher caste people (Thakurs) enjoy all the priveleges and hold
>>     all the power in the administration and the police. So when an
>>     injustice is perpetrated, the poor have no voice.
>>     Over the twenty years that the Shouries have run their school in
>>     Nagod, some of these poor people have started turning to the Shourie
>>     family for help, and in a number of cases they were able to help the
>>     poor people get redress through proper legal and administrative
>>     procedures . The people have begun to trust them and come to them in
>>     their times of trouble. As they help the poor, the Shouries have
>>     to be seen by the ruling castes as a challenge to their
>>     hold over the poor people.
>>     According to Mr Shourie, "This incident was designed to send a
>>     to the poor and the oppressed: 'if we can do this to an educated
>>     Brahmin like Mr. Shourie in his own home, you poor people are
>>     certainly not safe from us and should expect no help from them'. This
>>     incident has nothing to do with personalities but with principles. It
>>     is a sign of the desperation of the old order as it continues to try
>>     to prevent education and liberty and market forces from eroding the
>>     reign of terror which the ruling caste has exercised over this land
>>     for centuries. If they kill me and my wife and my entire family, will
>>     they prevent education and liberation from coming to this dark part
>>     India? By disabling or removing us from the scene they will limit or
>>     deprive the poor people of the little help that we have been able to
>>     give them. But the powerful and the mighty should realise that
>>     is against them and they should do as feudal elites in Northern
>>     for example did when they were in a parallel situation. The Northern
>>     European elites chose to go along with change and even sponsor
>>     That way their whole land benefited and they themselves are still
>>     there as the richest sections of their societies. But in other parts
>>     of Europe, for example Russia, the elites did resisted change. The
>>     result was that their whole land still suffers from backwardness and
>>     their traditional elite classes have in any case been completely
>>     eliminated. In a globalising world, there are new opportunities, we
>>     should be working together to produce more wealth for everyone, not
>>     continuing the centuries old game of mystification and oppression".
>>     Mr and Mrs Shourie's work is extremely highly regarded and the
>>     prize-winning Indian author Vishal Mangalwadi dedicated his book on
>>     the New Age to them.
>>     The left-wing threat from Marxist and Maoist groups in the Sixties
>>     Seventies has now been replaced by the threat from fascists who want
>>     to take over the country, destroy the tradition of Hindu tolerance,
>>     replace the secular constitution, and take India back into some
>>     version of the middle ages.
>>     Fascist activity has been building gradually over the last several
>>     years but the last year was the worst year on record.
>>     This new year attack threatens even more fascist activity for the
>>     festive year 2000.
>>     The Thakurs are the caste of erstwhile feudal landlords of the whole
>>     of Central/Eastern Inda. They have enslaved the people through fear
>>     and deception for ages. Many of them are very insensitive and brutal
>>     people. They are often used by the other high caste people to spread
>>     terror amongst the poor and the backward caste people. Their rule
>>     the people lasted right through the centuries of the Mughal period as
>>     well as through the centuries of British rule because the British as
>>     well as the Mughals preferred to rule through existing structures. It
>>     is only now as Independent India has been able to mobilise resources
>>     for national reconstruction that the unassailable power of the Thakur
>>     caste has come under challenge as a result of communication,
>>     education, transportation, modern finance and market forces and so
>>     Most of the attackers of Mr Shourie were Thakurs (indicated by the
>>     surname "Singh" in this part of India, but not to be confused with
>>     "Singh" families from the Punjab who follow the Sikh religion).
>>     Contact details:
>>     Mr Chandra Kant Shourie, Tel: + 91.7673 -32354; email:
>>     cshourie@rediffmail.com
>>This is the National Debate on System Reform.       debate@indiapolicy.org
>>Rules, Procedures, Archives:            http://www.indiapolicy.org/debate/
>This is the National Debate on System Reform.       debate@indiapolicy.org
>Rules, Procedures, Archives:            http://www.indiapolicy.org/debate/
>This is the National Debate on System Reform.       debate@indiapolicy.org
>Rules, Procedures, Archives:            http://www.indiapolicy.org/debate/

This is the National Debate on System Reform.       debate@indiapolicy.org
Rules, Procedures, Archives:            http://www.indiapolicy.org/debate/