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Re: A call for a Social Revolution
Please help make the Manifesto better, or accept it, and propagate it!
Continuing on with my reply to Naveenkj and his notions of
the rise of "radical extremists" in India.
> I for one would love to see the two countries join again, and would
> done anything to prevent separation in 1947. But not having been born at
> time, nor forseeing such unification in my lifetime, I would at least
> see a better relationship between India and Pakistan. Although we both
You would love to live in a 'unified' India, would you? Exactly
what would you be 'unified' with? Your neighbors who despise
every fibre of your being?
Want to have a taste of that? I invite you to come stay for a
week at Ballygunge Circular Road in Calcutta. Starting at 4:30
AM you will be woken up by no less than 3 loudspeakers calling
the faithful to prayer. And this will go on throught the day
from time to time. Although noise ordnances exist, no one has
the balls to enforce them. Any attempt at enforcing anything
civil against your neighbors would erupt into a conflagration.
Incidentally, if there is no difference between the people of
Pakistan and the people of India, how do you explain the
radical difference in the two societies?
For all those who long for India to be united, I have a simple
solution: you don't have far to go. Live in Calcutta for a few
months. That would cure one of any romantic notion of how we
are all the same.
What would you say to a person who owes his allegience not to
the country of his birth but to a foreign land? Whose
fundamental belief system says that you, a non-believer in his
eyes, are to be despised if not killed outright? Who sees you
as an enemy to be either converted or put to death? And it will
not be any ordinary death--your skin will be stripped and you
will be given new skin so that it can be stripped again. And
again and again. Ad infinitum. Don't believe me. Read for
yourself the word of god as revealed to his prophet. And
who will be doing this for your pleasure? His all merciful god
I am not a religious person. But it puts the fear of god in me
to realise that that is what living in a Muslim society is
like. Have you heard what is going on in the holy land of the
Taliban? Recently they punished a corpse with 100 lashes
because his beard did not meet the standard set forth by the
7th century prophet. Would you like your sister to live in the
land of the Taliban? No? Do you know what the next logical step
for Pakistan is in its glorious path to the Islamization of the
world? It is the Talibanization of Pakistan.
> This is the mentality our peoples in both countries need to have. We
> both need to have equal respect for one another, and end acts of
Equal respect for each other? Are you sure you even know what
you are talking about? I assume that you are not a Muslim. Do
you know that that makes you literally beneath contempt to a
devout Muslim? Can you show me anything in the Indian ethic
that treats non-believers in this way?
Your statement above implicitly accuses India and Indians of
acts of terrorism. Those are fighting words. EITHER
SUBSTANTIATE IT OR RETRACT THAT STATEMENT WIH AN APOLOGY.
I am serious about this.
> This will go a long way at home, where Hindus don't demolish mosques and
> Muslims don't kill the holy cows. We have to realize that we are
> and we have to love thy neighbor. I'm sure that's what Gandhi wanted, and
> that's what Gandhi wanted to preach in both countries, but was cruelly
> by a Hindu fanatic.
This is way beyond belief. Do you care to tell me the number of
mosques that have been demolished in India? Approximate figures
will do. Go ahead, I am waiting. Remind me of the systematic
destruction of mosques (and other non-Hindu places of worship)
in the last 2000 years.
Now do the same exercise for the temples destroyed. Use
scientific notation to save space.
Your facile statement about Hindus demolishing mosques is
sickening to the core. Do you realize that if indeed Hindus
were into demolition, mosques would be a rarity in India?
Your naivete would have been touching were it not for the fact
that ignorance inspired policy can be fatal. Have you heard the
slogan "hindi-chini bhai-bhai"? That was what Nehru believed in
till the chini woke him up with the bumboo in his behind.
The glorious Nehruvian head-in-the-sand tradition was well
followed by Gujral (and his shairi) and Vajpayee with his
bus-diplomacy. Read the consequences and weep.
Read up on history, my friend, before you advice policy. Heard
of Prithvi Raj Chouhan? What is he famous for? He loved his
neighbor to death--literally--his own death.
> Another area of reform is with trying to promote more interactions
> between different castes in the predominant Hindu population. I think the
> government needs to provide incentives to people who marry between castes.
Ah, that is so wonderful. As if we have not had enough
government already, we need government to tell us who we can
marry. When do you think we should appoint the government
official in charge of wiping our butts?
I get the distinct impression that you are quite averse to
freedom. You should live in an Islamic theocracy where the
government tells you what you can do and what you read and what
you can think.
> This is the only to be diverse and be unified. We need to come together as
> one melting pot. We have to change people's minds to see beyond their
> castes. Marriages between religions should also be encouraged.
Again religion crops up. Why the heck can't one just get on
without reference to religion? How about the government getting
out of the friggin' business of discriminating on the basis of
Has it ever occurred to you that if religion were strictly a
private matter much of the misery of the world would not exist?
What religious beliefs you profess must not in any way affect
the way you expect others to treat you. That should be the
> We also need to greatly improve the conditions of women in India.
> women are amongst the lowest in employment in the world. Indian women are
> also abused and have gone unnoticed by their husband and families. This
> needs to be ended. We have to abolish the dowry system, that has made
> property and promote a society where women are given their equal respect.
> also need to have more crisis centre's for rape victims, who are also on
> rise. (Only the ones that are reported not the ones that aren't reported,
> since families fear ridicule.) Affirmative action programs should be in
> place, to give preference to female candidates over male candidates in all
> government work places and initiatives.
> These are some of the major social changes that need to take place, in
> the minds of our people, and in our society and we as descent human beings
> ought to promote this. We can only do this with education and mainly
> scientific education. We need to be a people of progress and unification.
> We needed to keep in our minds not to fear. We need to keep in our minds
> accept positive changes, embrace them, and design them for a better
> - Naveen
Simple-minded homilies apart, we need to inform ourselves of the
reality first before we can hope to affect positive change.
Policy prescriptions based on a foundation of ignorance lead to
actions that do more harm than good. Like the monkey said to the
fish, "Let me save you from drowning", as he put the fish on the
As this is a list where policy is debated, let me outline what
to me appears must be at the core of any government of a people
as diverse as India. That core is that of absolute equality
before the law. The law must be completely even handed and
totally blind to caste, creed, religion, color, ethnic origin,
sex, sexual preference or whathaveyou. If we cannot agree on
this, there is scant little we can do to create a just and
So far, vote bank politics have precluded laws that provide
equality to various sections of society. On top of this, the
licence-permit-quota raj has seen that some people are
privileged. Whether it is the steel producer or the producer of
scooters or the procurer of import licences. All designed to
favor someone over someone else. This has to go.
Equality before the law has to be the linch-pin of the whole
machinery of any manifesto that seeks to remedy the faults of
our society. If that is missing, we may as well close shop and
save ourselves the trouble.
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