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Re: Ayodhya issue



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MV <maxv@vsnl.com>  wrote:
> >I have seen examples of crude mosques that were obviously
> >once temples, as in Varansi where it is right next to the
> >golden temple and you can still see parts of the original
> >structure. I felt and still feel the resentment quite strongly.
>
> If temples were broken it was the will of the majority people
> at that point of time.

Your theory is of course preposterous and a self-serving state of denial.
There is actually plenty of documentation from edicts and writings of Moghul
rulers themselves in boasting of their destruction of these places. This is
consistent with Muslim rulers not just in India, but elsewhere. It's amazing
how leftists are able to synthesize historical revisionism out of thin air.
You can't even show me the precedent for this anywhere else in the world.

>  It is *sad truth* that majority people of
> India didn't have the *right to enter these temples*, at that
> time due to caste system *perpetrated* by the very same people
> who want to re-build the temple now!.

Wow, again, your historical revisionism seems to be the product of
self-serving delusion.
The fact is that if these majority people had destroyed the temples and made
them into mosques, they would be a Muslim majority today.

I'm an atheist who doesn't believe in any deity. The reality is that there
is no caste system in India, and that this is simply a tribal system that
pre-dated the existence of religion on the subcontinent. It's no different
than the tribalism that exists in Africa. After all, can you tell me which
scripture refers to the "Patel caste", "Nair caste", "Iyer caste", etc?
There are no such scriptures referring to these. What are incorrectly
referred to as castes today, are merely the various tribal ethnic groups
that have long existed in India. There is no religious scripture or doctrine
which created these groups. Any picture that says otherwise is politically
contrived.

Hinduism is simply a cobbled together collection of schools of thought and
set of practices, which derived from the local customs and traditions, and
not vice versa. The word "Hindu" didn't even originally exist, and only came
into being to describe those who didn't belong to the major identifiable
groups -- Muslim, Christian, etc -- a sort of "miscellaneous category" if
you will. Please note that even Sikhs and Buddhists were originally referred
to by outsiders as part of this miscellaneous Hindu category, until they
grew large enough to assert a label of their own.

You can't even point to any founder of this so-called Hindu religion, as is
easily possible in the case of Islam, Christianity, etc.

Again, in any tribal collection, there are going to be differences among the
tribes. But the assertion of some theologically-induced hierarchical system
is again politically contrived. Look at the Hutus and Tutsis of Rwanda. Both
massacred each other in "caste" (ie. tribal) disputes. Both groups are
overwhelmingly Catholic. Does that mean that Catholicism has a caste system?
No, the tribal identities pre-date the arrival of Catholicism there.

The fact is that the Left in India need a convenient whipping boy to create
expedient and convenient explanations to justify their perpetual-protest
ideology, which seeks to nurture feelings of social discontent without
actually solving them.


> It is the events that
> followed, Mughal and British rule of India that led to the
> liberation of majority people of India from the *dark ages* of
> social caste system (when social caste system was abolished it
> was re-introduced in the education system, we have to liberate
> *majority* people of India from  educational caste system then
> only we will see this nation prosper)

Wow, isn't it amazing how the Left have created this marvelous
reality-isolated bubble for themselves?
Spoken like any Marxist. Too bad the Marxists, with their marvelously
contrived explanations were never actually able to pass the achievement test
of solving the social evils they claimed to fight. Which proves that even if
you can decieve everyone with your contrived arguments, you can't cheat
Mother Nature -- you can't cheat reality.


> What does the RSS, VHP and the likes have to say, *why* majority
> people of India didn't have the *right to enter* the broken
> temples at the point of time they were broken? If so how can RSS,
> VHP or anyone say that the temples were broken  against the will
> of the majority people of India?

The reality is again that tribal and class differences have been no better
than in the Muslim world. Please look at the number of Muslim groups who
discriminate against each other. Again, the fact is that these temples were
destroyed by the anti-idolatry dictats of Muslim rulers, and not by locals.

The problem here is that the Left are forced to engage in self-serving
historical revisionism, in order to perpetuate the divide-and-rule they must
use, in the absence of their ability to achieve solutions to the needs of
the masses.

The Left have always excelled in conjuring up the Shylock imagery, of the
mysterious Brahmin oppressors to scapegoat. It's no different than what
occurred under countless Leftist fascist movement around the world. The
Bolsheviks, Mao's Red Guards, etc, etc.

>
> My view is that the decision to re-build the temple should
> be taken only 25 years after the educational caste system
> is removed by making the *language* of instruction at the
> schools and university the same.  Then let the majority
> people decide. Any hasty action can only lead to division
> of India.
>
> MV.

My view is that most Muslims never even head of the so-called "Babri Masjid"
before it got knocked down. Then all of a sudden, it was on the tip of every
one of their tongues. How farcical.

I don't believe in selective morality. The fact is that most Islamic regimes
are the prime examples of religious intolerance, and until most Muslims
learn to do unto others as they would have done unto them, there is going to
be precious little sympathy for their activism. The Left likewise shreds its
own credibility, when it tries to hijack issues of secularism, whose
standards they are the biggest violators of.





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