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Re: Will India win a medal this Olympics ?

Please help make the Manifesto better, or accept it, and propagate it!
>How does this scenario apply here? I am talking about a new Industry, which 
>is going to create new jobs, let me ask you how it is going to land people 

What makes you think this will yeild new jobs? If you choose to emulate the 
American sporting industry, most sports have different seasons, spanning for 
only 5 months over a year.  The other 7 months of the year the stadiums go to 
sleep, with only a minimal maintainance crew watering the grass.  After the 
initial construction of the stadiums there would not be many opportunities to 
produce a vibrant job market.

>What is your problem, if somebody invests some money in this unexplored 
>area, it is not coming out of public coffers, and moreover it is probably 
>going to do more good to public, which I'll try to demonstrate later in this 

My problem is, the American type sporting industry in India would do nothing 
to allieviate the poverty of India.  Furthermore, it would prove detremental 
to Indian culture as we surrender ourselves to "American" capitalism.  And 
again I wouldn't care if the majority in India wish to live like Americans 
with a 50% unsucessful marriage rates, with single mother family and teenage 
pregnancies (for don't be fooled, those are definite side effects of 
capitalism), but I'm sure most of us don't.  

>By going through this argument we should stop doing everything (like why 
>India should have nuclear weapons when we can't provide water to out 
>population, why we need such an expensive and unaudited space program, how 
>about other defense programs, higher education anyone...). 

Chi Ching! Exactly! To add to that, why have we broken away from the founding 
ideals of this nation,the principles of Ahimsa?

>If you see pragmatically towards our water problem, it is more of 
mismanagement and 
>lack of money than lack of natural resource. How many villages have you seen 
>sitting right on the bank of river without water? I've seen some and that's 
>the reason I am writing this. And go to the small cities and townships where 
>some Industry is located, you'll hardly see any water problem, I strongly 
>urge you to go and see Jamshedpur in Bihar (what a wonderfull public utility 
>administration system, and can you imagine it is located in Bihar), so going 
>through the same line if sport complex (fictitious) needs lots of water, who 
>knows they might come up with proper arrangements with local water 
>authorities which in turn would benefit everybody.

Poor management can be dealt with through further democratization of public 
officials and resources.  Instead of water resources maintained and run by 
corrupt beuracrats who accept bribe in turn for water allocations to 
industrial areas, we need let the people directly involved in voting to 
acquire water resources.  To places that are really in need.  Your proposal 
to building a sports complex, and yes it will require many gallons of water 
everyday to maintain the quality of grass, will lead only to further 
corruption and loss of democracy.  Water will be channelled to these 
highpriced capitalists and the real Indian will loose his share, much like 
the farmers in south India have, thanks to Heinz food company.

>this project needs to be done outside 
>the city, where anybody could see how much land is totally wasted.

Only these lands being wasted can be distributed to the poor, as done in 
Zimbabwe, to encourage small businesses.

>I think you totally misunderstood this point, I never even tried to imply 
>that no Govt. is the solution, at the same time what is this more 
>democratization of India? Try reading first few pages of constitution of 
>India, after which I probably won't have to explain it is us who are failing 
>the Constitution than the Constitution failing us.

I completely agree, we are the ones failing the constitution, by having child 
labor grow unchecked, and instead of building more schools in remote villages 
to guarantee the educational rights of those "Indians", we spend our money on 
nuclear technology and with give tax cuts to the rich!

>This is how you feel it, you may be in the majority, however I don't agree 
>with this situation.

I'm glad the majority does and comeon brother, I hope you too see our side.

>I beg to differ on this, the atheletes are highly paid by there teams. You 
>can verify this.

Although the athletes in major leagues get paid more than the avg. American, 
i.e. more than $26,000, not everyone get paid at that level.  Only a 
selective group gets to play in the majors, the minor league player are not 
so wealthy.  Further more most players in the majors don't get paid millions 
of dollars either.  It is corporate sponsors that pick the better players and 
pay them through commericials etc. and ultimately the entirety of the 
industry is run as a consumer product advertising agency and not an 
institution that respects true qualities of a sportsman.

>Now this is once again beyond my comprehension, this remind me of friend of 
>mine nerrating her experiences in Calcutta buses, while travelling dressed 
>up in saree she was asked by a middle aged person while offering his sit 
>"Bosho Maa" in bengali, while after few days when she was travelling wearing 
>Jeans, she was asked the similar question in English.

Hahahaha… that's funny!

>My question is why can't puri go with sport, and why can't you go to see a 
>match wearing Kurtha (I sure do). Moreover what is wrong with Pizza? it is 
>perfectly edible product.

This is as I have said earlier is a hard concept to grasp, and I don't wish 
to spend time in this forum to debate the fruits of holding on to our 
indigineous culture and how American consumerism poses a threat to it.  Its 
how capitalism works, just look to Japan, Mexico, and liberalized parts of 
India to find the repulsive teens to Indian culture.

>Well... our democracy is definitely not that fragile that it is going to go 
>away with advertisement of Nike Shoes, Calvin Klein Jeans. And the same goes 
>with our culture too.

Even the American peoples have lost their democracy to special interest, what 
makes you think India will be spared?

>The point is when you see anything western you see only bad in it, you don't 
>see the advances west has made in the public administration etc. and I don't 
>see anything wrong in borrowing these technique from them instead of 
>reinventing the wheels.

Yes, there are lost of "good" things that we need to learn from the west.  
Like emulating their peoples struggles throughout history inorder to achieve 
equal rights.  Like their system of universal education for all, and a move 
towards adopting universal health care, and their declarations of 
independences throughout history to scrap the failed govts and replace it 
with a better one!

>Now I do not understand why you have to draw a line between Dalit and non 
>Dalit in India, and Black and White for rest of the world.

The white man rules the world… period.  You simply do not know of the 
"oppression of brown folk" even in your great America.  And you simply do not 
know of the Dalit and other backward class experience in India unless you are 
one… period.

>Now you are giving Gandhi a bad name, I read couple of his books (including 
>"My experintation with truth"), he was never against sports in any form in 
>that book. Gandhi was a pragmatic and modern person much ahead of his time. 
>People who call themself Gandhian and oppose these kind of development are 
>no Gandhian, rather they are biggest hypocrats.

Yes Gandhi never said anything about sports, but maybe you should go read 
Gandhi again.  Gandhi hoped that India would never turn to industrialism.  It 
was only Nehru's aspirations to compete with the west that started India in 
this modern mayham of "progress".  Gandhi specifically hoped for India to 
stay true to her agrarian culture and an united society working for 
betterment of human welfare.  He never preached greed and selfishness of 
capitalism and industrialization.

>This is a sweeping statement, I've heard this kind of rhetoric a lot without 
>any strong proof.

I'm a college student currently in the states, and my interactions with these 
people reveals such a sense of unhappiness and loss of identity, that I'm 
more than sure that the larger cruel, selfish world is the root of their 
problem.  And long papers on social behavior and high depression rates in 
U.S. have been written connecting conditions to their capitalist culture.  
Furthermore as a panacea for their ailments, the Americans are now turning to 
spirtuality of the east, with more people now believing stronly in 
reincarnation and theory of Karma (according to a new poll).  

>Moreover I am sick of this attack on "western culture" thing, without even 
>realising what a mess we are in (I think we try to hide our failures by 
>doing  this), unless and until we keep our house in order we should not even 
>try to attack other culture.

Yes we are far from being perfect, and I'll be the first to admit that.  But 
WE shall deal with our own culture and amend it and fix it, not abandon it 
and adopt an even more ail culture.



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