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Re: Res. Policy




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Postings not related to the writing of the Manifesto or policy chapters
are likely to be summarily rejected. Thanks for your understanding. IPI
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On Fri, 15 Jan 1999, hremi wrote:
>
>> Though born a Dalit, becuause I was born in a converted
>> Christian family, I did not get any reservation benefit on the other
hand I
>> suffered most- at least twice- socially, religiously.
> The plight of Dalit
>> Christians innrural areas are documented in the video: "Twice
Discriminated
>> Dalit Christians of Tamil Nadu", produced in 1986 by B. Kailasam of
Min
>> Bimmangal, Chennai.
>
>Small question. You can ignore if not interested in replying since this

>is a personal choice issue. Why is there a term like "Dalit Christian"?

>If the entire purpose of adopting Christianity is to get rid of the
>caste system then why attach the caste system to another religion? ----

my answer ---BECAUSE CASTE EXISTS WITHIN CHRISTIAN RELIGION IN INDIA!
TO
BELIVE THIS TAKE "THE HINDU", NATIONAL NEWSPAPER ON SUNDAYS AND SEE
CLASSIFIED ADS -THE MATRIMONIAL PAGE WHICH DEPICTS OUR MARRIAGE MARKET!
CHRISTIANS FURTHER CLASSIFY ON THE BASIS OF CASTE CALLING THEMSELVES AS
"NADAR CHRISTIANS", VELLALAS, BRAHMIN CONVERTS, ETC AS A REACTION TO
THIS
THE DALIT CHRISTIANS USE THEIR IDENTITY!
THERE ARE SEPARATE CEMTERY FOR DALIT CHRISTIANS IN TRICHY/
TIRUCHIRAPALLY,
SEPARATE CHURCH SERVICES, ETC.THERE IS CASTE IN CHRISTIAN RELIGION AS
THE
JESUIT MISSIONARY PESKY, IN ORDER TO CONVERT THE BRAHMINS AND UPPER
CASTE
INDIANS ASKED THE POPE IN 17TH CENTURY TO ISSUE A PAPAL BULL TO PRACTISE

CASTE WITHIN THE CHURCH IN INDIA. SO THE DALIT CHRISTIANS ARE NOW
ORGANISING
TO FIGHT AGAINST DISCRIMINATION WITHIN THE CHURCH THEN THE BY THE GOVT.
THROUGH PRESIDENTIAL ORDERS. THIS IS ANOTHER CHAPTER NEED LENGTH TO
PRODUCE
ALL THE RESEARCH ON THIS SUBJECT WHICH THE VIDEO I REFERRED  SHOWS.

My position is this: Conversions do not remove casteism and
untouchability -
it is only a question of faith or belief while retaining the parental-
societal culture, or predominat societal culture. All religions have
been
oppressiven and discriminatory while outwardly, sperficially profess
equal
treatment. The Sikh have a lower class, the Buddhist call them
neo-Buddhists, etc. This is why we need radical social change on a new
human
paradigm!
>
>Second, what is this about 'religious discrimination.' Is anyone
>discriminating anywhere against Christians? ---- quite a lot, I have
already answered above, there is very little inter-caste marriage among
Christians !>

 The reality of reservation is --it is a myth, it does not  work! With
high
>> percentage of school drop outs, vast number of illiterates, not even
2% of
>> Dalits  reach Post Graduate level, to avail 18% reservation now
existing!
So>> when are they going to get the benefits of reservation!
>
>This is an excellent point. Could you fish out statistics for the
>National level. I will put them up on the IPI page. Very important for
>policy debate.-------- The Statistics are in the UPSC Report, Staff
College
Report,, this is the reason there are no Dalit Judges in Supreme Court,
President Secretariat, PM Secretariat do not have Dalit official Many
Govt
Dept donot implement reservations, causing a lot of anger and protest
amond
Dalits I remember somethinbg like this two years ago: Class I may get
about
7%, Class 10 % and Class III 12 % and Class IV Office Boys, Sweepers 18%

--or full reservation  I need time to get the material to you that what
I
researched two years ago have been bundled and kept somewhere in my
office!
Or get the lates, which will take more time!

Henry Thiagaraj
>
>> >Please also take note of my strong comment about the Hindu leaders
>> >abolishing the discriminatory caste system entirely from their
religion.
>>
>
> ---if this works it is fine.I wish you good luck!
>
>Well, I don't know about it working or not. I do know that this is a
>target that each religion must have. If God created all people equal,
>then they must be called equal. Also, I will try to fish out the info
>from the Vedas where it is clear that the caste system was not
>hereditary when it was first designed.
>
>> >With a bit of work, we can actually operationalize this rhetoric
(which
>> >both you and I and Prabhu and Vinay and everyone else agrees to).
----
>> >
>> >I need your very considered opinion before the draft manifesto is
>> >circulated to 10,000 people across India.---- I am not an expert
oinb this
>> field of reservation . Considered opinion may be sought from learned
>> scholars who have researched on this subject: Professors Nancharah,
Kancha
>> Ilaiah, and Chalam in Andhra Pradesh, S.K. Thorat of JNU, Gopal Guru
and
>> Gail Omveldt of Pune University, to name a few!----
>
>Well, if you send in their addresses, Ajay will arrange to send the
>draft manifesto to them for their feedback.
>
>>   I believe the Guptara-Puneet proposal has much >merit----- I fully
agree
>> it has great merit.
>
>Thanks. We will incorporate that in the manifesto.
>
>> I donot have any easy solutions
>> that is why I like to brain storm with your team.
>
>Dear Henry. No one has solutions individually. Together, we can crack
>the toughest nut. Thanks for your comments. I believe we have made some

>progress.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Sanjeev



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