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Re: Fw: #1 in 1750?

Administrative Note:

Week's Agenda: Economy

Mr. John Dayal's posting of 14 Oct 98.

"will someone please put ion record that shivaji had a wsar going
with one shankaracharya and several hindu kings..
hinduism was never a uniting force in the subcontinent.
lets face it."

Dear Mr. John Dayal,
I dare to offer the following elucidation to your queries.

Point 1. Shivaji's War against .......

As for your point that Shivaji had a war going on with one
Shankaracharya and several hindu kings,   I think, with the
religious teacher, it could only be as as Shastrarh (discussion of
religious principles ). Shivaji had a great Tutor who taught him
basic values - Swami Ramdas - so how could it be otherwise. I think
you too mean this clash of ideas. (You are welcome to send direct
reply to me if this topic is closed in debate - I would welcome the
information sent too. We are here to discover truth and guidelines
for future, courtesy of the founders of this discu-ssion group, so
let us keep within the "boundary of time" as per their schedule but
still keep in touch during "overtime". At least, I am of this
opinion. Thanks.)

As for the wars with other hindu kings, Shivaji's life was spent
fighting the Mughal empire. The Mughal army had Hindu Sardars or
Commanders, one of them was the famous warrior and Rajput king Raja
Jaisingh who had amassed an enormous army (comprised of both hindu
Rajput soldiers of Jaising and muslim soldiers,) and confronted
Shivaji's much smaller army. It was on this occasion with the two
armies in their respective camps a few miles apart, that Shivaji
sent his historical letter to Jaisingh that had he, Jaisingh, been
sitting on the Delhi throne, he, Shivaji, would have considered it
an honour to make peace with him  but saw in the impending conflict
only the prospects of rivers of Hindu-blood flowing to consolidate
the domination of an outsider. He finally agreed to go to Delhi to
meet Aurangzeb on Raja Jaisingh's assurance that he will secure for
Shivaji an equitable truce. But Jaisingh could not secure even a
decent welcome for Shivaji. The subsequent episode of the
imprisonment of Shivaji and his escape with his son, hidden in a
"basket" of sweets being sent out, so to say, to celebrated his
recovery from illness, all planned under the nose of enemy's nose,
at the risk of certain death if discovered in the attempt, are all
part of a history that ought to make every Indian and Hindu feel
proud. But most barely know the name Shivaji.

Shivaji had great respect for all religions and did not believe in
rape and looting.He saw his fight as a fight for liberation from
foreign domination and for the creation of  Hindu Raj. He was the
First Hindu to make this pronouncement though the Rajputs had been
fighting the Mughals from before his time. They had not thought in
these terms. For that matter, I am not sure that we should see it in
the light of hindu muslim conflict because he saw it basically as a
fight against foreigners. He had muslim advisors and other court
dignitaries who were muslim. On one occasion, he respectfully
returned a copy of the muslim holy book Koran which was found (I
don't know where ! more research certainly required ) to a Maulana.

Mr. John Dayal, you should read Shivaji's letter to Raja jaisingh,
in its original (translation) - ought to be available at National
Libray, New Delhi or Delhi University Library - it is a
heart-stirring document which shows the advanced thinking of this
great warrior whose soldiers used to travel on horseback with black
gram as ration and for whom his sardars felt self-sacrificing love.

Point 2  - Hinduism not a Uniting force.

You are right in that Hinduism has not proved to be the uniting
factor one would have wished it to be. Even today, even if not
actually fighting, we keep Cheating each other which is econo-mic
warfare - trying to get unfair advantage over others. This is the
Main reason of lack of progress in India.

When Mr. X offers a bribe to Mr. Y, it is to gain an unfair edge in
business (or personal accumulation of wealth) over Mr. Z. And so on
in almost all matters.

Of all the different nationalities of people I have come across
every other except Indians think in terms of "joining forces
toge-ther to" gain a tactical advantage over others. Only Indians
think on a (Indian) Regional basis. Sindhi, Gujarati, Marwari,
Madrasi, Marathi etc etc.If at all, they might spare their own type,
others they will "crook" with the least compunction. They will even
join a foreigner to cheat one of his own brothers both in commercial
or War-ventures. The defeat of Hemu Vikramditya, perhaps the last
Emperors of Hindu kingdom was mainly because his Rajput Sardar
crossed over to the other side when Hemu got injured, while his
Pathan (Muslim) Sardar kept up the unequal fight and perished with
his king.

I can vouch for this - Bangkok tailors turn their heads when an
Indian tourist is looking into their shop-windows - don't want to do
business with a prospect who will not offer the prices paid by a
Japanese or European or Australian ! Almost every one has a
foreign-sounding name- Jack, John, Peter, Tom, Dick, Harry. And
don't think I am citing example of so -so people - I know More
number of Tailor-Millionaire  than belonging to any other
professional class.

You might find this difficult to acceept but this phenomena has
convinced me of the "refining" value of good education and the
NECESSITY of giving all aspiring businessmen relevant educa-tion
about ethics of doing business, obligation to pay taxes, their
responsibility towards society and allied topics, not to forget why
they should not use the Hawala method of money-transfer ! A well
educated person does not resort to casual cheating as he has some
self respect and is reasonably sure of making his living without
demeaning himself while a minimally educated person sees in cheating
the only way to "level" with his better educated brothers.

This of course, occurs in many other fields - those with capacity,
study and get their degrees, those without either copy in exams or
forge certificates or go to American Universities where they award
even PH. Ds for "life-experiences" provided you pass on a few
thousand dollars to make Their two ends meet - There is no Free
Lunch in America.  Another example can be of authors - authors with
ideas Write, those without, plagiarize. Simple. In fact, looking at
things from this angle, life is too simple - it is all about Making
the two ends meet.

This is why it is far more important to build a sense of values in
our people  - Teach them self-respect, Teach them to be proud to be
Indians - than to give them a bundle of policies which they are
likely to  treat as yesterday's newspaper.



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