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Re: Feel not bad: let's move on

Folks! The rules of debate did not exist before Sitaramayya came in. These were created after the debates with him to avoid the strange, diffused arguments which led to no one understanding each other, because there was a stone-walling method employed: i.e., no matter what one gave as a response, data or facts, logic or information, the end result was the
same: "I don't like your use of the word: small and intelligent government," or that "you are a capitalist." And so we made these rules of
debate precisely to prevent the endless rambling. 

Utkarsh: I think I did say this in my last mail, that I am not sure if we debated long enough then we will be able to change someone's perspective. If we do find a discussion which does bring additions to the plan, we must debate, otherwise we can say that we differ. In my opinion it did cross that line.

In debates, however, all of us can use satire, and pungent stink-bombs, or whatever other emotion, or appeals, wherever necessary. These tools are perfectly legitimate, and must belong to the armory of every gentleman debator. The debates between Disraeli and Gladstone, for example, are an illustration of the trade of debate. Maybe I should cull out some sample
debates to illustrate how a debate can be run, without being insulting.

Utkarsh: May be here, where I differ. In my opinion it is not a debate contest. And I hope this is an effort of consensus building of solutions to real problems.

Having disposed of that, may I suggest that to abruptly end the debates by calling himself a "Social Democrat" - as Sitaramayya did, and writing that he is wasting his time on this group, might not quite be a very clear
indicator of what he stands for. I was, very honestly, hoping for a better, more clearly articulated, and focused, set of issues from him, instead of a diffused response.

I do not quite hear a scientist (of Biomedical "science") speaking up here. A bio-medical scientist, when confronted with a problem [such as people dying in large numbers, suddenly] sets out to state the problem,
frame a hypothesis, test it out, and if required, keep testing alternative hypotheses, until he finally explains best the facts.  Then, once the cause of the problem is known, to the best possible extent, the biomedical scientist tries to solve the problem using all possible information available to date, and invents new cures, if necessary. 

Utkarsh: I think every one is human first and a scientist or any thing later. I am sure that most of us agree that the problems' effect is so real that the luxury of debate seem needless to tackle real problems in India. But on the other hand we do need to define, what do we want. And that is why I am here, hoping that by the end, we will at least have a definition of what we stand for.

Anyhow, it is time to move on. Let us not ruminate too long over a contest which did not go forward because of the walk-over received. It was not your fault and definitely not mine. I know, it does not feel good to
receive a walk-over, makes you feel guilty about something that you might have done wrong, somewhere. But let us not feel too bad, and in any case,
the invitation to Sitaramayya is always open, in perpetuity, as are the debates. We stand for openness and debate. We stand to be corrected, by logic and argument, and facts. And so be it. I don't know everything, but I will debate with all my might and with facts and figures, and contest, with good humor and courage, till the truth is found. And we change India into what we see it can become.

Utkarsh: Well my reason of pointing this out to suggest that if we do not become objective and very polite in terms of discussion, we will have only two kinds of members. One who always listen and the ones who care to suggest but quit on us.

Now: time for business: Where are your reports on Local self-governance and urban development, Utkarsh, Srini? Have we been making progress?

Utkarsh: I 'll try to get something soon on Panchayats.


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